Excellent commentary Reverend. Your message was so good and fulfilling to me. I’m gonna go ahead and subscribe because a Holy Spirit is working strong through you right right now with a bunch of evil stuff that’s going on around here in New Orleans and Texas. Please pray for me as I know. I’m doing the right thing. Look forward to hearing you next insertion.
Hi Joe, thank you so much for your comment. I am so pleased that you are being moved by the Holy Spirit. I will definitely pray for you just now. God bless you. Robert
Reverend Robert, in your NIV version what does Isaiah 53:3 say? Mine says "despised" twice like my KJV with a small change in the rest of the wording. When you mentioned that the NIV was different I was taken aback because today I found out that the NIV has purposefully left out the word "fasting" in two different verses. These two verses are Matt 17:21 and Mark 9:29, the latter being worse because it misquotes Jesus Himself. Fasting in itself is a very important weapon for the Christian in facing the demonic, so leaving this out is quite suspect.
I was thinking that maybe your version over there is different than the ones here in America. Please compare those verses against your KJV or NKJV and let me know if yours are different also. Thank you for this thought provoking video.
Yes, verse 3 uses the word "despised" twice. If you look at the website Biblegateway, there is a NIV and a NIVUK version. Even though I am over the pond, I try to use the NIV version. I dont know about being suspect, but the omission does leave out a good slant on the subject.
Exactly. Their versions leave out tiny details which leads me to distrust using it anymore. Misquoting Jesus is huge to me. My pastor said he doesn't use it but does use the NKJV or KJV, but he checks the original language where conduct is concerned.
There are different editions of the NIV that read differently. My NIV 2011 includes both instances of the Hebrew word translated as "despised".
That aside, I encounter quite a few issues with the way the NIV translates things. I do use the 2011 New Testament, when studying with others that prefer it, but when I come across anything peculiar I check it in the Greek, with which I have some familiarity, along with good reference tools.
Matthew 17:21 is commonly omitted in contemporary translations because it only appears in later manuscripts. The evidence that it is a later insertion is strong. I have lists showing which manuscripts do and do not include it (the NA28 and UBS5 apparatuses), and there isn't anything I can add to that.
Mark 9:28 is a different case. The verse exists in older manuscripts and is not in doubt, but there are a number of manuscripts that read either "prayer and fasting" or "fasting and prayer", rather than just "prayer". So "prayer" is certain, and "fasting" is in doubt (and omitted in my newer translations).
Interesting. It makes me wonder why the KJV and the NKJV have it as "fasting". If Jesus was talking about expelling difficult demons, it would make sense that He would add fasting and not just prayer alone.
All in all, I think I will avoid the NIV and stick with the KJV from now on. Thanks for the input.
Hi Un-silent, I think the lesson here is that there are occasions when we should be fasting and praying. Be prepared to miss out a lunch for the sake of our walk with God and seeing Him move in this dark world. Do we have a real commitment to God that includes a regular time of fasting?
With regard to KJV I cannot get my head round the "ye olde English". If I cannot understand it, then how will a new Christian understand it? When organisations like the Bible Society give away Bibles in places such as Pakistan etc. they dont translate the words into 1611 Punjabi, but a Punjabi version that is in todays language.
I suspect that most of us that grew up with the KJV have to at least stop and think about what some of the words mean, even though we were taught the meanings. Modern English readers don't even know how to pronounce these things, let alone know what they mean.
None of these words came to us in English, and looking across the surviving texts in whatever language, there are variants, and translators have to decide what to do about that. The KJV NT is primarily sourced from what is known as the "Textus Receptus" or TR. You can search and find different stories about the TR, depending upon who wrote them and how they regard the TR vs. other reference compilations such as the NA28 (which is what I generally work with, understanding its limitations). As an example of a "pro-TR" account, there is this: https://www.bestbiblecommentaries.com/9-facts-about-the-textus-receptus
It's easy to see why the KJV, based on the TR, differs from the modern translations based on the NA2x (depending on how new the translation is; the NA28 is the latest published Greek reference). Just look at the Greek from each.
There are two extra words at the end of the verse in the TR, "καὶ νηστείᾳ", which translate to "and fasting". The word before that translates "prayer". That's the "simple" explanation for the difference.
Apparently there are pros and cons to either translation depending on what you choose to read, like most things on the internet. The important thing is to ask for guidance form the Holy Spirit. He seems to lead me to the answers I need.
The Holy Spirit: "He leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness For His name’s sake." Thats the leading I desire.
Thank you so much for these words.
Sorry, big mistake. I am already prescribed or subscribed.
hahaha. That is great Joe. thank you so much.
Excellent commentary Reverend. Your message was so good and fulfilling to me. I’m gonna go ahead and subscribe because a Holy Spirit is working strong through you right right now with a bunch of evil stuff that’s going on around here in New Orleans and Texas. Please pray for me as I know. I’m doing the right thing. Look forward to hearing you next insertion.
Joe Berezoski
Coach Bear, the Urban Farmboy
Hi Joe, thank you so much for your comment. I am so pleased that you are being moved by the Holy Spirit. I will definitely pray for you just now. God bless you. Robert
Reverend Robert, in your NIV version what does Isaiah 53:3 say? Mine says "despised" twice like my KJV with a small change in the rest of the wording. When you mentioned that the NIV was different I was taken aback because today I found out that the NIV has purposefully left out the word "fasting" in two different verses. These two verses are Matt 17:21 and Mark 9:29, the latter being worse because it misquotes Jesus Himself. Fasting in itself is a very important weapon for the Christian in facing the demonic, so leaving this out is quite suspect.
I was thinking that maybe your version over there is different than the ones here in America. Please compare those verses against your KJV or NKJV and let me know if yours are different also. Thank you for this thought provoking video.
Yes, verse 3 uses the word "despised" twice. If you look at the website Biblegateway, there is a NIV and a NIVUK version. Even though I am over the pond, I try to use the NIV version. I dont know about being suspect, but the omission does leave out a good slant on the subject.
Exactly. Their versions leave out tiny details which leads me to distrust using it anymore. Misquoting Jesus is huge to me. My pastor said he doesn't use it but does use the NKJV or KJV, but he checks the original language where conduct is concerned.
will have to consider this. Thanks again
There are different editions of the NIV that read differently. My NIV 2011 includes both instances of the Hebrew word translated as "despised".
That aside, I encounter quite a few issues with the way the NIV translates things. I do use the 2011 New Testament, when studying with others that prefer it, but when I come across anything peculiar I check it in the Greek, with which I have some familiarity, along with good reference tools.
Matthew 17:21 is commonly omitted in contemporary translations because it only appears in later manuscripts. The evidence that it is a later insertion is strong. I have lists showing which manuscripts do and do not include it (the NA28 and UBS5 apparatuses), and there isn't anything I can add to that.
Mark 9:28 is a different case. The verse exists in older manuscripts and is not in doubt, but there are a number of manuscripts that read either "prayer and fasting" or "fasting and prayer", rather than just "prayer". So "prayer" is certain, and "fasting" is in doubt (and omitted in my newer translations).
Interesting. It makes me wonder why the KJV and the NKJV have it as "fasting". If Jesus was talking about expelling difficult demons, it would make sense that He would add fasting and not just prayer alone.
All in all, I think I will avoid the NIV and stick with the KJV from now on. Thanks for the input.
Hi Un-silent, I think the lesson here is that there are occasions when we should be fasting and praying. Be prepared to miss out a lunch for the sake of our walk with God and seeing Him move in this dark world. Do we have a real commitment to God that includes a regular time of fasting?
With regard to KJV I cannot get my head round the "ye olde English". If I cannot understand it, then how will a new Christian understand it? When organisations like the Bible Society give away Bibles in places such as Pakistan etc. they dont translate the words into 1611 Punjabi, but a Punjabi version that is in todays language.
Yes, that is why I would lean towards the NKJV especially for new and younger Christians.
Do you have a recommendation for fasting? It is really hard for me since I need to take meds with food during the day.
NKJV is a good choice.
Fasting, let me pray for this. The first thing I would say is not to go against the advice of your doctor.
I suspect that most of us that grew up with the KJV have to at least stop and think about what some of the words mean, even though we were taught the meanings. Modern English readers don't even know how to pronounce these things, let alone know what they mean.
Yes, that is why I would lean towards the NKJV especially for new and younger Christians.
Do you have a recommendation for fasting? It is really hard for me since I need to take meds with food during the day.
None of these words came to us in English, and looking across the surviving texts in whatever language, there are variants, and translators have to decide what to do about that. The KJV NT is primarily sourced from what is known as the "Textus Receptus" or TR. You can search and find different stories about the TR, depending upon who wrote them and how they regard the TR vs. other reference compilations such as the NA28 (which is what I generally work with, understanding its limitations). As an example of a "pro-TR" account, there is this: https://www.bestbiblecommentaries.com/9-facts-about-the-textus-receptus
It's easy to see why the KJV, based on the TR, differs from the modern translations based on the NA2x (depending on how new the translation is; the NA28 is the latest published Greek reference). Just look at the Greek from each.
NA28: Mk 9:29 καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς, Τοῦτο τὸ γένος ἐν οὐδενὶ δύναται ἐξελθεῖν εἰ μὴ ἐν προσευχῇ.
TR: Mk 9:29 καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς, Τοῦτο τὸ γένος ἐν οὐδενὶ δύναται ἐξελθεῖν, εἰ μὴ ἐν προσευχῇ καὶ νηστείᾳ.
There are two extra words at the end of the verse in the TR, "καὶ νηστείᾳ", which translate to "and fasting". The word before that translates "prayer". That's the "simple" explanation for the difference.
Apparently there are pros and cons to either translation depending on what you choose to read, like most things on the internet. The important thing is to ask for guidance form the Holy Spirit. He seems to lead me to the answers I need.
The Holy Spirit: "He leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness For His name’s sake." Thats the leading I desire.
Amen!